I need to rant about this. It is digusting

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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-05 21:36

Don't worry, I'm not offended - I can see what you mean, but I also hope you understand where I am coming from.

Lol - Roy at my pet store isn't like that.
He genuinely didn't know what it was, and he hasn't actually ordered any since I explained how difficult it would be to keep them happy.
Fancies are a bit of a rarity round here anyway (and I was wrong about Mr Anderson - he's 3 this year) so again, we don't really have the sympathies sales.

I also see what Akasue is saying - infact Mum said much the same thing when we were discussing this topic. Well, actually she said - "If the shape of the animal is not causing it pain or upsetting it, then that's quite fine by me."

As I said, we've had Blackmoors for ages. Mr.A is classic puffyeyed, with twin tail and slightly elongated fins. He hasn't got a funny shaped rear-end. Mind you, he is a little chubbier than your average goldfish. He's a happy, well looked after fish, inquisitive of the world and likes to eat from your hands.
And I can't say we've ever had to feed them funny things, or medicate them more than a normal fish with normal illnesses...

So once again in my opinion - if you can look after them well, and it isn't causing problems - it's alright by me.
Kind of like the children my aunt fosters - a lot of them have horrendous conditions - but they are lovely, caring children - most of which are living full and happy, pain-free lives - more to the point, some of her eldest have gone on to marry and have children of their own.

Relate that to fish - and you'll see exactly what I mean.
You wouldn't kill a child because it looked gross, would you?

(Ooh, sorry - got a bit deep there!)
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Postby saracen » 2006-02-06 09:11

akasue wrote:
Mike@AmazonAquatics wrote:you think it was right to keep a sickly child with eyes sticking out on stalks, a hideously bloated body and four legs alive?...

do you think it would be right to kill it though!!!!!!!!!

I don't think Mike is saying that...(sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth Mike, and feel free to correct me)

I do think he is saying that no one in their right mind would go out to deliberately create that kind of a child, which is what has happened with the selective breeding of relatively normal goldies to create animals like the celestials.

As I said earlier, you also have to love what you are given....so once it's here, it deserves some love.
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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-06 10:01

saracen wrote: I do think he is saying that no one in their right mind would go out to deliberately create that kind of a child, which is what has happened with the selective breeding of relatively normal goldies to create animals like the celestials.

As I said earlier, you also have to love what you are given....so once it's here, it deserves some love.

That's sort of what I was trying to say - there ought to be a limit really.
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Postby KittyKat » 2006-02-06 10:18

...so best to aim any anger at the creator (i.e. the breeder) rather then the creation (i.e. the fancy goldies)...
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-06 11:12

This is getting into quite a deep conversation about ethics isn't it? Guess that's a good thing...

In theory yes I do believe in euthanasia if something is deformed enough to suffer surely it would be horrible to force it to stay alive?, but what we keep coming back to is where do you draw the line? Is it a different line for a human being to that for a fish? And no I would never condone killing a human child, however 'abnormal', although in principal it might be the 'right' thing to do... there is a massive difference though between killing a human being and choosing not to force someone to stay alive artifically (with drugs and machines) if they would naturally die, if you understand me? I've paid for a clause in my will which says if I am ever turned into a vegetable, from a car accident for example, that they won't plug me into a ventilator and will let me die naturally... not for my sake, I won't care 'cos I'll be in a coma, but for the sake of those close to me. I'm not sure I could do it myself even if the child was clearly suffering so maybe I'm a hypocrit? Having recently had a child of my own I appreciate that all parents (and carers) love their children whatever shape they come in...

The problem I have with fancies is that someone has deliberately gone out to make them that shape... they aren't random events of nature, they are man made freaks!

We accept fancy goldfish because we have all been brought up with them, many of us have relatives or friends that have kept them, most of us probably saw them in pet shops as kids and thought they were 'cute'. Try to imagine a world without any fancy goldfish for a minute, now imagine that instead of dyed fish someone started importing Celestials and Black Moors... what would you think then? Honestly? I think the outrage would be huge...
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Postby akasue » 2006-02-06 19:56

now this is horrible, I agree with you over these but I wouldnt class a black moor as being a freaky fish

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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-06 20:44

That is just disturbing.

Dark was shocked "it's cruel - like breeding a human to be a size 40 when they're born."

And yes - we should be angry at the breeders - Dark says "It's hardly the fishes fault, is it? It's kind of like a disability.
But if that sort of breeding makes the fish healthier, then that should be encouraged. It shouldn't be done to make the fish look fancy if it means it's going to suffer, if otherwise it'd be a happy little comet.
Mind you - Goldfish were bred for their colours weren't they?"

He likes his goldfish. ^_^
("But I couldn't give a S*** what colour or shape it was - I prefer their personality!")
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-08 13:47

:o

Akasue are those fish in the UK?

They are monstrous abominations and if they came in to my possession I would feel compelled to euthanase them humanely.

When there are so many beautiful and amazing species of fish in the world naturally, many threatened with extinction because of habitat destruction, why do we (humans) need to keep on making ever freakier and more deformed and unnatural forms?!

There are probably some 6-8000 species of freshwater fish alone, possibly 20,000 species of fish in the entire world including marines, they are going extinct faster than any other vertebrates (primarily because of habitat loss and overfishing for food... not because of our trade - that is another debate). Of these 20,000 only a couple of thousand are currently kept regularly by us fishkeepers, we could be doing so much more by keeping, breeding, and studying some of the less well known species, rather than breeding freaks... does anyone else agree, or am I all alone here? :unsure:

Ok, so I'm a tree hugging eco-hippy, but someone needs to care :D

Q agree completely, what we are talking about are disabled fish, fish which have been selectively bred to be disabled by immoral people who know very well what they are doing... doesn't that thought disturb you?!
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Postby leedham » 2006-02-08 14:08

well i dont think its right to make them just big bloated creatures with swimbladder problems and breathing problems and stuff but i dont mind colour strains but i think as long as there not to messed up they shoulfd be aloud but i cant stick died fish
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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-08 15:16

I don't know as it would be fair to kill them though Mick, just because they were a funny shape.
If you could make them comfy and give them a good rewarding life - then I think that you should, rather than than just put it down there and then.
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-08 17:15

Ah, but Q sometimes it's necessary. Can't imagine fish like these getting any kind of joy out of life at all, can you? If all they've got to look forward to is suffering and pain followed by slow death from a range of incurable ailments isn't it kinder to get it over with and bang them on the head?

Leedham, even I (crazy fanatic that I am), don't mind colour strains. To be honest if it doesn't seem to alter the fishes quality of life then it's not really a problem is it? Having a strange colour, or slightly elongated fins, doesn't seem to harm the fish, they can still have a 'normal' life, it's all the things that start to interfere with the 'normal' life I have problems with... and that includes dying which is completely unnecessary and cruel I agree!
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Postby akasue » 2006-02-08 18:41

nah i think they are from the us. here is another one

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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-08 18:58

I feel sick... :(
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Postby akasue » 2006-02-08 19:03

thats what I thought, i really dont like them scales, looks like thorns all over, like a lizard or something.
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Postby Kev » 2006-02-08 19:22

Mike@AmazonAquatics wrote: I feel sick... :(

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