I need to rant about this. It is digusting

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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-04 19:02

Hey you guys, there are many horrible things done to fish in the name of our hobby... this is just one of many... not that it makes it any better of course! :(

The 'natural' colour of Parrot Cichlids (the man made hybrids, not the wild ones) is a dull orangey colour, I'm told that it is the natural colour of one of the two (or possibly three) Central Americans they were hybridised from. Apparently they always eventually revert back to this colour, whatever colour they are when you buy them. Most of the colours are achieved with colour feeds, not dyes though. "Red Parrots" for example are merely Parrots conditioned since birth on food rich in carotene, "King Kong Red Parrots" are just older fatter ones conditioned on carotene and given a stupid name to tie in with a new movie (apparently they are all the rage in the fashion victim world that is the US). Don't know enough about the Central American cichlids to say what Parrots are hybrids off, but I could find the info. if anyone is interested. Unfortunately unlike most hybrids they are fertile... which is why we have so many around now.

The story in the trade is that Parrots are way out of fashion for 2006... remains to be seen what the horror fad fish of 06 will be?

Flowerhorn cichlids are equally gross mutant hybrid freaks, but they seem to have died a death :D

What about "balloon mollies"?! Or ten times worse "balloon Rams"!!!! :angry:

The list could go on and on....

Banning fancy goldfish is a personal campaign... one I seem to be losing badly... problem is there are so many otherwise sane fishkeepers who can't see what mutant, inbred, man made, Frankensteinish monsters they are?! Since I opened the shop (last Sept) I must have at least two people a day coming in to buy swim bladder and fin rot medication for their pet freak show.

I pestered Matt Clarke at PFK about starting a PFK campaign against fancy goldfish... the feedback was that PFK doesn't want to take a stand on fish which are so popular with it's readers.... in other words, it's Ok to produce mutants if lots of people like them :unsure:

One of my regular wholesalers asked me why I didn't stock any fancies in the shop, he gave me the impression I was losing out on a big money maker. To paraphrase him "first you sell them the fish, then two weeks later you sell them the medication, then two weeks after that you sell them another fish to replace the one that has just died... easiest money in the world"!!!! :o

If you thought most people in the aquatic trade were cynical and full of s**t you wouldn't be far from the truth... but obviously I didn't say that :ph43r:
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Postby KittyKat » 2006-02-04 19:18

lol mike! ...do you object only to the deformed bodies varieties or to fancy tails as well?
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-04 19:29

well if you want me to be precise:

long fins/tails - not my taste, but no problem
fantails - bad
triple tails - real bad
deformed swim bladders - unnecessary and cruel
deformed heads - you sick b*****d!
deformed head with poppy eyes - vomit wrenching mutant freaks that ought to put out of their misery at birth
"Celestials" - you ought to have your eyes pulled out and stapled to the top of your head to see how you like it you sadistic freak!!!
Or something like that anyway...
I try to be nice, honestly I do... :rolleyes:
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Postby saracen » 2006-02-04 19:38

<!--QuoteBegin-Mike+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Celestials" - you ought to have your eyes pulled out and stapled to the top of your head to see how you like it you sadistic freak!!![/quote]

I know I really shouldn't, but.....*giggle* thank you for voicing that one!!
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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-04 19:56

Ooh hey - My celestial was lovely! Alright, I don't normally agree with such things, but he was a rather peculiar specimen that came into my local pet store with a bunch of normal goldfish.
We had no idea what he was at the time, I fell in love and bought him there and then.

Most of these fish can lead happy, normal lives if looked after properly - so it's not all bad. A life is a life - what ever shape it's in!
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Postby KittyKat » 2006-02-04 19:57

too true... although i do like long tails...

considering what you've just said, i'd have thought you'd object to guppies!
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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-04 20:00

Am I guessing Blackmoors count in your line of "sick" fish?
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Postby KittyKat » 2006-02-04 20:05

me or mike?

depends on how bad it is.

all the "blackmoors" i've ever had looked like slightly bloated (not enough to be called ballooned) black, longtailed common goldies

anything with random eyes or deformed bodies i object to.
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Postby Indigo Blue Fish » 2006-02-04 20:12

All the Blackmoors I've ever seen - including the ones we've had at Mum's over the years - have those puffy eyes.
Mind you, they've all lived with us a good long time. The one at the minute is about 2 years old - the last one was about 6, he came down with an infection (we're not quite sure what from) and died, which was a shame.

To be quite honest, I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions - I see what you both mean about deformity - but my opinion on this is: If you can look after it properly, it's ok. If you're a kid that got given a 3 inch tank for christmas - get sodded you little brat!

I don't see it as on the level of cruelty that dyeing is on - they can be rewarding fish, and seem quite happy - unusual shapes and all. Alright, they're more prone to problems - but then that could be said for a lot of breeds of fish if not looked after properly.
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-05 16:13

:lol2: oh dear can of worms here, I don't want to offend anyone, I'm sure everyone here loves their pets and does their best to give them a good quality of life, but I really do believe, 100% with all my heart, that fancy goldfish (I don't just mean shubunkins with longtails, I mean real 'fancies') are all mutant freaks that shouldn't be kept alive... use your head for a minute (not your 'oh isn't it cute' heart) and you will see it is cruel.

Quirlys, not picking on you personally (am sure you are a perfectly reasonable person... re: my comment initially on 'otherwise perfecly sane fishkeepers'), but would you think it was right to keep a sickly child with eyes sticking out on stalks, a hideously bloated body and four legs alive?... Especially if that child had to constantly be drip fed medication, had trouble breathing, couldn't keep it's balance, was constantly in pain, would only grow to 3 foot tall, and had a maximum life expectancy of 20 years, but would more likely snuff it before it reached two?! I think most people, even if they don't believe in euthanasia, would not want such a child to survive past birth, for it's own sake. Well a Black Moor is all of these things when compared to a 'normal' goldfish and, as you say, Black Moors are the best of an appallingly bad bunch :(

Imagine a 'Celestial' human baby, it would be a bloated midget with four legs, it's brain outside it's skull and it's eyes stuck on either side of it's head!!! :o

And before anyone throws in the 'fish don't feel pain' chestnut, they certainly do as plenty of grim 'scientific experiments' have shown :o
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Postby saracen » 2006-02-05 17:07

Well, there seems to be two sides to the coin, and that leaves you with a catch 22....

You have to love whet you are given, so once the fancy goldfish is here, it deserves to be loved, but by doing that, you create a gap in the shop tank that the nice owner thinks needs to be filled, and, oh look, that sold, so I need another one.....

It's a bit like the dyed fish. While people buy them, people will breed/colour them.
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-05 18:19

As this is a rant can I please add...

Quirlys I'm sure you are a kind and generous soul, but buying mutant (aka fancy) goldfish just because they look 'sad' or 'lost' only serves to promote the cruel trade in them further... any trade that plays on people's sympathies like that is frankly very sick and twisted...

KK as you know I'm in two minds about albinos and longfins (e.g. linebred guppies and bettas), we've all got to draw a line somewhere though and they at least seem to be able to live out a good healthy 'normal' life without constant medication and attention, grow to a normal size (bigger than the wild equivalents in many cases) and have a normal lifespan.

No offence meant to either of you, or any other fancy goldfish keepers in any of this rant, at the end of the day this is a very personal rant about how we can overlook one kind of cruelty and yet be appalled by another... call it 'cultural tolerances' if you like... a bit like being shocked because Koreans eat dogs, and then not realising that we might be seen as just as cruel to them because we eat battery reared chickens... when you take your blinkers off and look under the surface a bit ours is certainly not an entirely 'ethical' hobby, although most fishkeepers I know are the best sort of people with the best intentions... whatever fish they keep... ;)

Now I need to go and lie down a bit, and stop frothing at the mouth... :wacko:
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Postby Mike@AmazonAquatics » 2006-02-05 18:55

yes Saracen, yes... nicely put, I didn't read your posting before I added that last bit of insane muttering, not being rude it just took me a long time to write my response because I was serving some customers. You just said it better than I ever could.
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Postby akasue » 2006-02-05 19:17

Mike@AmazonAquatics wrote:you think it was right to keep a sickly child with eyes sticking out on stalks, a hideously bloated body and four legs alive?...

do you think it would be right to kill it though!!!!!!!!!
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Postby mitchschaft » 2006-02-05 19:21

I'll never get rid of my fancies!
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