Black moor help

[misspants12]

Hi There, I was wondering if anyone could help me,

I have 2 Identical tanks one either side of my TV both just a tad bigger than 20 gallon containg a plant and all sorts of gravel and stones to big for them to eat. They are both the same distance away from the light, doors and other things that could influence the temprature. The speakers on the tv are the same distance away from the tanks and is hardly ever on as I prefer to play games. They both have a air pump but not a filter, Because they dont have a filter I like to do regular 30% waterchanges, say every 2/3 days when I am doing the tropical tank and terrapin in turn (they are both a 4 foot and a 3 foot tank so I do those ever 5/6 days depending on when I do the goldfish)

I have replaced the little guy on the left of my TV twice now in the time I have had the one on the right (3 months). They have everything the same so I have no idea why the one on the left keeps dying! I do not want to get him replaced untill I can be sure what is going on in there. Just so you know, when I clean them out I some times swap the tanks so they have the change of scenery as the decorations are different colours but I never change the sides the actuall fish are on, so Im sure its not of any diseases as wouldnt all my goldfish of died (they all go in the same bucket when I do the monthly gravel clean out and none of the other fish have shown any symptoms)

The amonia levels are fine, nitrates are fine and the PH is fine! I use a 0.1% dosage of Aqualibrium as a phBuffer and tonic as the ph is a little high in my area, Haloex Dechlorinator and water safe in all my tanks and have no problem with any of them (The Terrapin doesnt have the aqualibrium or the watersafe as i didnt know if it was safe for him but the tropical tank does)

I have moved the remaining black moor in with my normal goldfish untill I can get this sorted as I love my little Edward and wouldnt want him to die! I have heard that black moors and flat bodied goldfish dont get on in the long term so I would like to get something sorted asap!

All advice is gratefully apreciated

Kind regards
Sarah

[KittyKat]

From your description, I would say that the culprit is ammonia and nitrite poisoning combined with poor water quality.

The amonia levels are fine, nitrates are fine and the PH is fine! I use a 0.1% dosage of Aqualibrium as a phBuffer and tonic as the ph is a little high in my area, Haloex Dechlorinator and water safe in all my tanks and have no problem with any of them (The Terrapin doesnt have the aqualibrium or the watersafe as i didnt know if it was safe for him but the tropical tank does)

Can you post your actual water parameters, in ppm or mg/l? Do you use liquid test kits or strips? Do you test right before the water change? What is the temperature?
The pH buffer might be causing variations in water hardness, which are often harmful or deadly to fish. It is very unlikely that the water is too hard for the goldfish because goldfish do best in hard water. (Usually, hard water had high pH, soft water has low pH.)
You should be dechlorinating your tap water for all your aquariums, including for the terrapins, because chlorine and chloramine are harmful to the animals and the filter bacteria.
Do you know about the nitrogen cycle? If not, please read at least what I wrote about it: http://aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/ ... s-cycling/

I have 2 Identical tanks one either side of my TV both just a tad bigger than 20 gallon containg a plant and all sorts of gravel and stones to big for them to eat.

Can you post photos of the tanks? What do you feed them?

I have moved the remaining black moor in with my normal goldfish untill I can get this sorted as I love my little Edward and wouldnt want him to die! I have heard that black moors and flat bodied goldfish dont get on in the long term so I would like to get something sorted asap!

It will be fine for the immediate (short) term, make sure that the black moor is able to feed properly. The main problem with keeping fancy and common goldfish together is that the common goldfish out compete the fancies for food and a common male is much more likely to harass a fancy female to death when trying to mate than a common female.

[misspants12]

Hi there
Thanks for the responce

I used a liquid test kit that I got from the aquatics shop by me and its just shows you colours depending on how much amonia or is in the water, with the ammonia if the water turns yellow its 0ppm and the darked shade of green it goes the more amonia it has in. I test it before I do the water change then if its any higher than .50 which is when it starts going a yellow/green then I do the water change. Nitrates is the same but pink and is usualy below 25ppm. Im not sure what its called thou as I got the box wet one day and it needed to be binned.

Oh and they went through the cycling process for 2 weeks while I was on holiday before I added fish

My tanks I had custom made so they would fit either side of my tv without looking stupid, unfortunatly my camera wont connect to my computer. But these are the measurements below.


measurements in inches (cm):
Width: 15" (38.1cm)
Height: 20" (50.8cm)
Depth: 15" (38.1cm)
Your tank's volume is approximately 4,500.0 cubic inches or 19.5 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 75.8 liters. (got that last big off a tank calculator as im no good at math)

I feed all of my cold water fish 'Tetra Goldfish Flakes' and none of the others have anything wrong with them. the 2 of them I have had for nearly a year now.

My fella seems to think it might have something to do with the shop I bought them from but im not sure as i get all my fish from there :S And I have moved the black moor back into his original tank as I decided he had lived in there for 3 months with out being ill so it must be okay

Would Electrical cables running along the back of the tank make any difference as thats the only difference between the two?

Thanks

[KittyKat]

I used a liquid test kit that I got from the aquatics shop by me and its just shows you colours depending on how much amonia or is in the water, with the ammonia if the water turns yellow its 0ppm and the darked shade of green it goes the more amonia it has in. I test it before I do the water change then if its any higher than .50 which is when it starts going a yellow/green then I do the water change. Nitrates is the same but pink and is usualy below 25ppm. Im not sure what its called thou as I got the box wet one day and it needed to be binned.

Firstly, liquid test kit is good as they are relatively accurate so it's great that you have these. But, 0.5 ppm ammonia will harm fish in the long term and can kill them. In fact, any readable ammonia will harm fish and as a general rule of thumb, even in the worst situations of an uncycled aquarium, one must never let ammonia *reach* 0.25 ppm.

I didn't mention before, but ammonia poisoning most often manifests as health problems, increased susceptibility to disease and shortened lifespan.

And what about nitrite? That is also harmful.

Ammonia and nitrite levels are "fine" only when they are *always* at 0 ppm, anything above is "harmful to the fish".

Oh and they went through the cycling process for 2 weeks while I was on holiday before I added fish

I am going by what you said here: I think you didn't cycle your filter (as you don't even have filters on all of your tanks), I think you just say it for two weeks full of water, which would not have been any different from sitting it for one day. I really, very, very strongly recommend you read about the nitrogen cycle right now because this is the reason your fish died and the surviving goldfish has already been poisoned.

For the sake of your fish, please read about the nitrogen cycle, especially fish-in cycling as that is what you have been doing.

measurements in inches (cm):
Width: 15" (38.1cm)
Height: 20" (50.8cm)
Depth: 15" (38.1cm)
Your tank's volume is approximately 4,500.0 cubic inches or 19.5 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 75.8 liters. (got that last big off a tank calculator as im no good at math)

Although this is not the cause of the deaths, the tanks are too small for the fish in the long term. Fancy goldfish can grow to over 12 inches (30 cm) long with proper care and will live for 15-20+ years. If you don't believe me, here's photo evidence: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/at ... 93&thumb=1 and http://www.koiphen.com/forums/attachmen ... 1201271019

I feed all of my cold water fish 'Tetra Goldfish Flakes' and none of the others have anything wrong with them. the 2 of them I have had for nearly a year now.

Again, this is not the problem here, but they would benefit from a varied diet and one which includes cooked and de-shelled peas. The fancy goldfish would benefit from the peas more than the commons because during the the inbreeding which gave them their body shape, their digestive systems suffered, ending up squashed and warped.

My fella seems to think it might have something to do with the shop I bought them from but im not sure as i get all my fish from there :S And I have moved the black moor back into his original tank as I decided he had lived in there for 3 months with out being ill so it must be okay

The problem really is only caused by ammonia poisoning and the other fella is also affected, he just happens to be better than it is usual at surviving!

I really hope read what I advised above, but if you don't believe me, please at least ask on another forum, stating the water parameters and tank sizes: you will get the same response.

If you do believe me, I strongly recommend that you do temperature matched water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 ppm as possible, using a double dose of dechlorinator which "deals" with ammonia (like Prime or Stress Coat, both temporarily convert ammonia to ammonium). Then buy filters and seed them with media from any other established freshwater tank or pond. You are in a fish-in cycle situation. It would be very useful for you to know your tap water ammonia and nitrite readings, pre- and post- dechlorination because tap water can contain ammonia, nitrite and chloramine (the latter converts to ammonia after dechlorination). During a fish-in cycle, it is not uncommon to be doing 90-95+% water changes at least once per day.

The most important thing to remember is that *any ammonia or nitrite is hurting your fish in ways which can not be undone*.

[valemont]

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